Source:: [SuttaCentral.net](https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&script=latin) # Snp4.11 Kalahavivādasutta | Brilliant Q&A, going to the root of [[Sanna|Perception]] Tags:: [[Sanna|Saññā]], #dhamma/qaa, #gatha > [!info] Q&A similar to [[DN21 Sakkapañhasutta]] > [!tip] Explained in depth in this article: https://spiritualessence.in/2024/12/21/quarrels-and-disputes/ ## Notes > [!tip] Ending of the _Perceiver_ and the _Perceived_ — In Kalahavivādasutta ([SNP4.11](https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato)) > **(Question)** > > “**Form disappears** for one proceeding how? > _“Kathaṁ sametassa **vibhoti rūpaṁ**,_ > > And **how do happiness and suffering disappear**? > _**Sukhaṁ dukhañcāpi** kathaṁ **vibhoti**;_ > > Tell me how they disappear; > _Etaṁ me pabrūhi yathā vibhoti,_ > > I think we ought to know these things.” > _Taṁ jāniyāmāti me mano ahu”._ > > --- > **(Answer)** > > “**Neither attached to perception (1)**, **nor rejecting perception (2)**; > _“**==Na saññasaññī na visaññasaññī==**,_ > > **Nor without perception (3)**, **nor perceiving what has ~~disappeared~~ re-appeared (4)**. > _**==Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī==**;_ > > Form disappears for one proceeding thus; > _Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,_ > > **for concepts of identity due to proliferation spring from perception**.” > _**==Saññānidānā hi papañcasaṅkhā==**”._ > > > > [!summary] What are the 4 things? ([Detailed explanations](https://spiritualessence.in/2024/12/21/quarrels-and-disputes/)) > > 1. _Na **saññasaññī**_ - Not **clinging** to perception > > 2. _Na **visaññasaññī**_ - Not **rejecting** perception > > 3. _Na **asaññī**_ - Not **without perception** > > 4. _Na **vibhūtasaññī**_ - Not **perceiving cessation** > > > [!info] What is _sañńi_ and _sañña_? (Vilas) > > - **_sañña_** = experiencer and what is being experienced > > - **_sañńi_** is singular which means. "experiencer" > > - **_na sañña saññī_** = not with any experiencer & experienced and with experiencer > > ^ending-of-perceiving ## Video ![[(2023-06-04) (2-Part Series) On understanding Perception!#^v2]] ![[(2023-06-04) (2-Part Series) On understanding Perception!#^v1]] ## Sutta (Translation by Bhikkhu Sujato) Anthology of Discourses 4.11 Sutta Nipāta 4.11 Quarrels and Disputes Kalahavivādasutta “Where do quarrels and disputes come from? “Kutopahūtā kalahā vivādā, And lamentation and sorrow, and stinginess? Paridevasokā sahamaccharā ca; What of conceit and arrogance, and slander too— Mānātimānā sahapesuṇā ca, tell me please, where do they come from?” Kutopahūtā te tadiṅgha brūhi”. “Quarrels and disputes come from what we hold dear, “Piyappahūtā kalahā vivādā, as do lamentation and sorrow, stinginess, Paridevasokā sahamaccharā ca; conceit and arrogance. Mānātimānā sahapesuṇā ca, Quarrels and disputes are linked to stinginess, Maccherayuttā kalahā vivādā; and when disputes have arisen there is slander.” Vivādajātesu ca pesuṇāni”. “So where do things held dear in the world spring from? “Piyā su lokasmiṁ kutonidānā, And the lusts that are loose in the world? Ye cāpi lobhā vicaranti loke; Where spring the hopes and aims Āsā ca niṭṭhā ca kutonidānā, a man has for the next life?” Ye samparāyāya narassa honti”. “What we hold dear in the world spring from desire, “Chandānidānāni piyāni loke, as do the lusts that are loose in the world. Ye cāpi lobhā vicaranti loke; From there spring the hopes and aims Āsā ca niṭṭhā ca itonidānā, a man has for the next life.” Ye samparāyāya narassa honti”. “So where does desire in the world spring from? “Chando nu lokasmiṁ kutonidāno, And judgments, too, where do they come from? Vinicchayā cāpi kutopahūtā; And anger, lies, and doubt, Kodho mosavajjañca kathaṅkathā ca, and other things spoken of by the Ascetic?” Ye vāpi dhammā samaṇena vuttā”. “What they call pleasure and pain in the world— “Sātaṁ asātanti yamāhu loke, based on that, desire comes about. Tamūpanissāya pahoti chando; Seeing the appearance and disappearance of forms, Rūpesu disvā vibhavaṁ bhavañca, a person forms judgments in the world. Vinicchayaṁ kubbati jantu loke. Anger, lies, and doubt— Kodho mosavajjañca kathaṅkathā ca, these things are, too, when that pair is present. Etepi dhammā dvayameva sante; One who has doubts should train in the path of knowledge; Kathaṅkathī ñāṇapathāya sikkhe, it is from knowledge that the Ascetic speaks of these things.” Ñatvā pavuttā samaṇena dhammā”. “Where do pleasure and pain spring from? “Sātaṁ asātañca kutonidānā, When what is absent do these things not occur? Kismiṁ asante na bhavanti hete; And also, on the topic of appearance and disappearance— Vibhavaṁ bhavañcāpi yametamatthaṁ, tell me where they spring from.” Etaṁ me pabrūhi yatonidānaṁ”. “Pleasure and pain spring from contact; “Phassanidānaṁ sātaṁ asātaṁ, when contact is absent they do not occur. Phasse asante na bhavanti hete; And on the topic of appearance and disappearance— Vibhavaṁ bhavañcāpi yametamatthaṁ, I tell you they spring from there.” Etaṁ te pabrūmi itonidānaṁ”. “So where does contact in the world spring from? “Phasso nu lokasmi kutonidāno, And possessions, too, where do they come from? Pariggahā cāpi kutopahūtā; When what is absent is there no possessiveness? Kismiṁ asante na mamattamatthi, When what disappears do contacts not strike?” Kismiṁ vibhūte na phusanti phassā”. “Name and form cause contact; “Nāmañca rūpañca paṭicca phasso, possessions spring from wishing; Icchānidānāni pariggahāni; when wishing is absent there is no possessiveness; Icchāyasantyā na mamattamatthi, when form disappears, contacts don’t strike.” Rūpe vibhūte na phusanti phassā”. “Form disappears for one proceeding how? “Kathaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ, And how do happiness and suffering disappear? Sukhaṁ dukhañcāpi kathaṁ vibhoti; Tell me how they disappear; Etaṁ me pabrūhi yathā vibhoti, I think we ought to know these things.” Taṁ jāniyāmāti me mano ahu”. “Without normal perception or distorted perception; “Na saññasaññī na visaññasaññī, not lacking perception, nor perceiving what has disappeared. Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī; Form disappears for one proceeding thus; Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ, for concepts of identity due to proliferation spring from perception.” Saññānidānā hi papañcasaṅkhā”. “Whatever I asked you have explained to me. “Yaṁ taṁ apucchimha akittayī no, I ask you once more, please tell me this: Aññaṁ taṁ pucchāma tadiṅgha brūhi; Do some astute folk here say that this is the highest extent Ettāvataggaṁ nu vadanti heke, of purification of the spirit? Yakkhassa suddhiṁ idha paṇḍitāse; Or do they say it is something else?” Udāhu aññampi vadanti etto”. “Some astute folk do say that this is the highest extent “Ettāvataggampi vadanti heke, of purification of the spirit. Yakkhassa suddhiṁ idha paṇḍitāse; But some of them, claiming to be experts, Tesaṁ paneke samayaṁ vadanti, speak of a time when nothing remains. Anupādisese kusalā vadānā. Knowing that these states are dependent, Ete ca ñatvā upanissitāti, and knowing what they depend on, the inquiring sage, Ñatvā munī nissaye so vimaṁsī; having understood, is freed, and enters no dispute. Ñatvā vimutto na vivādameti, The wise do not proceed to life after life.” Bhavābhavāya na sameti dhīro”ti.