# (2022-09-07) {Vilas Youtube} on Sāmisa and [[Niramisa|Nirāmisa]] Sukha Tags:: #chat-with-vilas > [!info] Following up of earlier video: > [[(2022-09-06) How to remove defilements or fermentation @Kilesa @Niramisa @Sampajanna]] > [!info] Context > - Q (by Eryu): > - You said 2 things: > - 1\. When you just do the **Gatha**, you'll have **Samisa piti/sukha**. > - 2\. **ALL Jhanic bliss is Niramisa**. > - Now, which is right? > - Sutta: [[SN36.31 Nirāmisasutta]] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxoEnHkBhI - Eryu: there is an **Attachment** to Jhana - Vilas: No, it's **Chanda** — a **Liking** towards the jhana experiences - Attachment = ajjhosa - @@ Sariputta: **You have to remove chanda through chanda** ([[SN51.15 Uṇṇābhabrāhmaṇasutta]]) ^0534fe - Simile: Meeting at a park — after the meeting happens, the chanda is removed - **@@@@** Vilas, when you just do the **Gatha without removing the akusala** (i.e. *vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi* ...), there will be a **mix of Niramisa and Samisa piti/sukha**. ^56d8c0 - Exact percentage cannot be said - Eryu: i guess it depends on the amount of akusala. - niramisa = remove akusala - Q: What is this **"nirāmisā nirāmisatarā"** in [SN36.31](https://suttacentral.net/sn36.31/en/sujato)? - atarā = other than - **@@** Vilas: Experience between **having and NOT having suppression (of akusala)** is **totally different!** — the **mind stops** in the latter. - Where you are **TOTALLY equanimous** of everything. - **@@@@** Vilas gave a great explanation on the **6 Sense vinnana** and the **1 Other vinnana** which **Watches** over them. ^73a3c5 - ![[(2022-09-06) How to remove defilements or fermentation @Kilesa @Niramisa @Sampajanna#^fd7604]] - **@@@@** #dhamma/practice When you meditate, you are **watching** as the **Other vinnana**, where it gets **developed**. Eventually it **overwhelms** the movie cinema and you realized that **You are the Light**. - The Other vinnana will get extinguished when the 6 vinnana have no fuel left in them. - **@@** Vilas: **Buddha does NOT talk about** the Other consciousness since it becomes confusing, and brings back the discussion of **1) Atma and 2) Anatma — BOTH are wrong views**! - Eryu: this is related to the "Eighth Consciousness" ([wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses)) - Q: Can Arahat stay in 9th jhana forever? What about when interacting with people? - Vilas: read MN122 Mahāsuññatasutta sutta ([link](https://suttacentral.net/mn122/en/sujato)), where he talks about how arahat interact with people.