# (2023-03-20) Vilas Clarified on What is [[Savitakka & Savicara|Savitakka & Savicāra]] Tags:: [[Vitakka & Vicara]], [[Savitakka & Savicara|Savitakka & Savicāra]] - (Context) Vilas responding to the question of whether i should keep contemplating on how to grow the Youtube channel - Vilas: it's not about too much thinking and pondering..it is about not thinking and pondering, but just bringing **_==[[Focus, Attention, Awareness, and Mindfulness|focus, attention and awareness]]==_** - Eryu: I have understood from this that it is thinking and pondering. I might have misunderstood. - Vilas: yes..it is thinking and pondering in a different sense - not exactly vitakka, but with sa-vitakka - @@@@ Vilas: - ==**_savitakka_** means - **_directing the thought_**== - ==**_savicara_** means - **_consistently being on that thought which is been directed_**== - @@ and so, **dhamma or any other thing**, if you want to **_manifest_** then, ==you need to have **_savitakka_** and not **_vitakka_**== - Vilas: - @@@@ Let me explain ==**_vitakka_** and **_vicara_** for u.. it is **_not_ a directed thought**, but just **thoughts arising out of sense perceptions**== (as explained in [[MN18 Madhupiṇḍikasutta]]) - Whereas, savitakka would be directed thought as in [[Etam Santam|Etan Panitan Etan Panitan]] - Eryu: Ahh I see!! So vitakka and vicara is like normal mind wandering or pondering on a subject, where as Savitakka and Savicara is like paying attention to the breath and keeping the attention there. Is that right?😃 - Vilas: Absolutely - Eryu: But when i brining a Dhamma subject for contemplation, e.g. Buddha Vandana, there will be some "thinking" involved right? And that is still Savitakka and Savicara? - Vilas: It is savitakka and savicara only since u are bringing in thoughts what u want - Vilas: Doing kusala with purpose is savitakka and savicara.. same thing with immoral as is done with intention (cetana) - Eryu: What if you're bringing a **workplace** related subject for contemplation, but in a conscious and deliberate way? - Vilas: that is worldly or "conventional" still as savitakka and savicara - Vilas: however, one has to ==develop **_avitakka_** and **_avicara_** which is actual **_samādhi_**== - Eryu: I guess in this case it's neither Kusala nor akusala, but still Savitakka because it's directed with clear intentions. - Vilas: - @@@@ thinking and pondering (**_vitakka_** and **_vicara_**) due to **_six sense bases_** is what is **normal worldling** do...then, he puts his focus, attention and become aware of a situation (micca samādhi) which is part of savitakka and savicara - when, one transcends that, will reach **_avitakka avicara samādhi_** - Eryu: Ahh ok! That makes sense! Thanks for explaining, Vilas! 😃 - @@@@ Vilas: ==in short, when you bring a dhamma subject ([[Etam Santam|Etan Panitan Etan Panitan]]), you are forcing it or directing it and hence **savitakka** and **savicara**..when that thinking and pondering takes full shape, ***[[Piti]]*** arises and so ***[[Sukha]]***== - after u start practicing like that, u will gain avitakka and avicara which then takes you to **_upekkha_** or **_4th jhana_** - Eryu: Piti and sukha can also arise even **without any Dhamma subject** per se, but rather using only the breath as meditation object, is that right? - @@@@ Vilas: whatever you take as thinking and pondering **_==extensively due to direction==_**, you would get into **_samādhi_**..now whether it is **_micca samādhi_** or **_samma samādhi_** is what it would be