# (2025-11-22) Vilas clarifies on Arahatship & becoming a monk [5:59 AM, 11/22/2025] Venugopal (Vilas' Student): The Milindapanha mentions by implication that lay people can attain full enlightenment: "If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna" [5:59 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: this is as per Visuddhimagga and not as per sutta… [6:06 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: just to lay out clarity from the sutta: Arahantship is defined by the destruction of the taints (asavas) and the removal of the ten fetters. In the earliest texts (Sutta Pitaka), enlightenment is a mental transformation, not a physical or bureaucratic one. There are several points in the Suttas that support this view: Yasa the Noble Youth: In the Vinaya Mahavagga, Yasa attains Arahantship while still a layman living in his house. He does ordain shortly after, but the attainment happened before the robes. Suddhodana (The Buddha's Father): According to the commentaries themselves, the Buddha’s father attained Arahantship on his deathbed as a layman. He did not ordain, nor did he "die because he was an Arahant"; he died because of old age and illness. The Definition of "Monk": In the Dhammapada, the Buddha often redefines what a "Brahmana" or "Samana" is. He implies that one who is peaceful and pure is the true holy one, regardless of their dress. Also in KN, Patisambiddhamagga Pali, Bhikku includes savakas also where in it is an householder but in ariya sense. In this case, Shainiel qualifies for it and there is no need to be ordained under anyone since Arahat are not be ordained as they have completed the journey [6:08 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: Let us also probe further into it: Why does the tradition say they must die? If the Suttas don't support this strict rule, why did the Milindapañha and later commentaries invent it? There are two main reasons: A. Institutional Protection (The Sangha) As Buddhism became an organized religion, there was a need to assert the supremacy of the Monastic Order (Sangha). If a person could live as a layman, enjoy a house, and yet be fully enlightened, it might discourage people from ordaining. The "Ordain or Die" doctrine establishes that the Holy Life (Brahmacariya) is the only vessel capable of holding the highest fruit. B. The Definition of "Lay Life" This is the most charitable interpretation of the rule. In Buddhism, a "layman" isn't just someone wearing norm… [6:10 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: In the case of Shainiel, he does not have family as such and also I’ve seen him being strict with practice. He does not indulge into anything eventhough he has everything. This clearly shows that there is no possession and that goes away at “Sakadagami stage itself” With Kamachanda and Byapada being gone, he has left the sense of “I” which was clinging on to it due to craving. With craving ending, there is nothing to hold and hence arahat phala is the only option [6:12 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: just taking commentarial interpretations without really experiencing what happens at “arahat” would cause more restlessness and doubt which are hindrances. One thing about Buddha dhamma is that there is no need for anyone to certify where they have reached as it is “self revealing” [6:14 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: Shainiel did share the ending of suffering in the Aussie group. We should appreciate that since the reason why we are in Buddha dhamma is to stop the rebirth process and nothing else. Let us all feel happy and contented that even to this day, if we were to follow the steps of Buddha, the end result is an Anågami or an Arahat. [6:15 AM, 11/22/2025] Veena (Vilas' Student): On 6 th November morning Vilas Sir ji has become Arahant . [6:15 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: Veena…u don’t have to publish it since this topic is very uneasy and controversial. Better not to speak and only if asked, say that [6:16 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: At Arahat, there is no sense of “I” - including the subtle one. Without that, there cannot be any rebirth in any existence [6:19 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: why this death or robes happened? This is because, during the time of Buddha, the lay followers who reached “anāgami stage” left their home and became homeless (anāgarika). With this, the only way they can reach Arahat was through diligence in Sangha. If they cannot ordain, there would be nothing for them to hold-on to the society norms and hence they would die or kill themselves as there is no “I” to recognize anything there [6:19 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: classic case is of Visaka and Dhammadinna [6:21 AM, 11/22/2025] Vilas Kadival: in the current conditions, there are so many sectarian ones. Monasteries are now like tadpoles or frogs everywhere. Whom will you go and join? Above all, there are traditions which bind that person. Arahat is one who cannot be bound by anything and hence, the only way for that person to be “peaceful” till he ends the body journey is to remain “silent spectator” rather than associating with anyone or any organization